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Discussion: TS4 Conversation Post

Inspired by the disjointed conversation of Tumblr (and worry about annoying people with lost of text posts while attempting to have one, and so on...), I'd like to try to have a conversation here. What are you excited for in TS4 from what we've seen so far? The return of rotational gameplay? The breastfeeding option? The awesome cat vest?! Are you worried about the sim count and lot limit? Do you love or hate the style? Or are you over it all already? Let's hear it! :)

I'm not around as often as I used to be, so please talk amongst yourselves here as much as you like! I do get windows of time to participate (usually with a sleeping, teething baby worn on me in a carrier, or when my toddler wants to watch "the YouTubes"), so I will jump in whenever I can.

Also, hi! It's been a while. :) I miss this.


Jun. 25th, 2014 02:58 pm (UTC)
I really love, love, love the aesthetic, even the plastic hair everyone seems to hate. The whole style is so gorgeously soft and bright and fun! I don't have a problem with the lighting or objects so far but I'd have to see them in-game. There will be plenty of mods for it, though, no doubt.

Something I'm really happy/excited about that other people haven't mentioned so far is that you can give guys some actual body shape/definition. I'm very happy that we have a lot more diversity with all Sims, naturally, but it seems like EAxis was always happy to give female Sims more shape/definition (i.e. ~sexiness~) but were afraid to give dudes any shape other than "barrel chest". But all the TS4 Sims we've seen so far have had GOOD BODY SHAPES - natural, visually appealing, and diverse. And their clothes ACTUALLY FIT. I'm really liking all the clothes we've seen so far (cat vest cat vest) but I'm especially happy to see T-shirts that don't end weirdly at the navel and actually hang organically off the Sims' bodies. Potentially good styles in TS3 were completely ruined by having the totally wrong fit.

I'm interested in seeing how traits and moodlets carry over and mix with the new emotions system, if they do. Traits & moodlets were one of my favourite parts of TS3 gameplay so I hope they return, although I guess emotions could easily take the place of moodlets. I am a little worried, though, that the emotions system will be too "trigger happy", so to speak; while TS3 Sims could have multiple moodlets stack up (I'm happy about my promotion, but I also have a lot of stress right now, etc.), I'm afraid that emotions in TS4 will override each other based on whatever happened most recently and create unrealistic/jarring mood swings - "Woohoo! I just got promoted! I'm walking on air! I- wait, is that food rotten?? Ugh, GROSS. Now I'm mad!" and they won't get back their post-promotion high even though that should be running in the background for at least a few Sim days. There will probably also be mods for that, too.

Mostly I'm just looking forward to developing a totally new style of play! I'm really pleased to see how much it's borrowing from TS2.
Jun. 25th, 2014 03:43 pm (UTC)
I agree with you about the hair, but like many others, I don't love the new yellow-blond colour. It's just not the most appealing hue, in my opinion. I can't remember if there was another blond option, but hopefully we can recolour or replace it.

The body shaping in CAS is amazing, and the layers of body fat and muscle definition are separate sliders, so that's a huge improvement. I'll really excited about CAS! Even my SO, who isn't much interested in sim games, says he can't wait to mess around with it. (Good news for us all, because I think he'll make some fantastic sims! Which I will then share...)

I'm sure we'll look back at the clothing and sigh one day, because time marches on and styles do change (even fit - some of this stuff will seem way too fitted eventually), but they seem to have a lot of classic options there. "Style" vs. "fashion" if you know what I mean, and options for different ages and stages. The cat vest gives me so much hope for character stuff. Give me quirky, give me weird, give me unfashionable! I love having those options, and cc tends to let us down in this regard, most of the time.

I'm concerned that emotions have sort of replaced personality, in a sense. What's driving whether a sim gets a certain emotion in a certain situation? I wanted a much meatier personality system than three traits. Detailed in the way that the CAS is, with much broader range and subtle difference. I'll give their system a chance before I write it off, but it's not what I would have done (if I had any ability to program, LOL! Hard for me to talk...)

That said, the aspirations look great! Most of the (good) TS2 options, and some nice new ones. Nurture? Deviance? Yes, please! I wonder if Love is similar to Romance, or does that get covered by some of the traits, like fear of commitment? I love the Romance asp. in TS2, but it can be a little bit one-note that way.

I'm also looking to embrace it as a whole new game. I know now that I will always have TS2 (as others will always have TS3, if they love it), so that sort of apprehension of losing this game and community no longer hangs over my head at all. I'm just hoping to have a new game that I also love! :)
Jun. 25th, 2014 03:47 pm (UTC)
My thoughts on personality systems, originally posted on Tumblr over a year ago (found here). I'll wait and see how well the TS4 system works, but this was how I felt about the TS2 vs. the TS3 systems:

"Okay, I'll warn you upfront that this is going to be long. I almost feel as though I should refine these ideas a little further and turn this into an actual essay (to be sent it to the game developers, perhaps?), but for now this is what I have on first pass.

Ideally, I would like to see a combination of the two ideas, but given a choice between the personality points + aspiration system and the traits system, I would go with the system in TS2 and work on making it more complex. I think it is already more complex and nuanced than the trait system, even in its TS2 form, and could be something truly remarkable if developed even further. I feel that traits should be something that are added to a sim in addition to that system and not as a replacement for it.

The five point personality system represents a continuum that every person can be placed somewhere on. Most real life systems of analyzing a personality use something similar. Currently in TS2, you only see major differences in three quadrants of the personality scale (from 0-3, 4-6, and 7-10), with some special behaviours for the extreme ends of the scale. If every single point on the scale came with specific behaviours, the system would become much more complex and interesting. Also, adding more personality categories would also result in added complexity. (I personally like the temperament trait system, which includes activity level, regularity/rythmicity, initial reaction, adaptability, intensity, mood, distractibility, persistence and sensitivity, and would love to see some elements of that system factored in.)

Aspiration is also a very interesting way to categorize sims, as I think most people can also be grouped according to their overarching values and life goals. I think this system needs improvement. Some, like Romance and Pleasure, are somewhat too specific and need to be broadened or refined, and Grilled Cheese is more of a precursor to a trait (and originally added as joke, so this makes sense), so it should be removed from that system and possibly turned into a trait as it should be. I think it would make sense to add a sort of altruistic aspiration or one relating to morality. All of these aspiration categories could have both positive and negative outcomes, depending on how the sim approaches it.

Those two systems combined, even as they exist in TS2, is already a very complex system. Add to that the interests (though these could have more relevance than conversation topics), hobbies, and turn ons/offs, and I think you have something that goes well beyond a system of five traits per sim.

For me, traits make more sense as an additional character detail, to be added after the big picture personality is determined. If they are the only thing that defines the sim, you can end up with a character with very extreme and often stereotyped behaviours, but with no detail at all to reflect aspects of personality that all of us share. Depending on which traits you select, you can have a very shallowly defined character, and this leads to some very specific traits being much less useful in that system and probably aren't used very often by many players. For example, how often does anyone use "never nude" after trying it out once as a novelty?

Traits seem to reflect mostly specific quirks and/or talents that people exhibit. Sometimes these may be a direct result of the person's personality (and could be determined that way more effectively), but other times not. I think that being able to select whether a sim is a "good kisser" or a "green thumb" is less important to me than deciding the fine tuning of how their mind works (personality), and the key values that drive the direction of their lives (aspiration). I could simply use my imagination for traits quite easily and be fine with that. It's fun to have those behaviours and animations included in the game, but I feel that should be included as a cherry on top and not replace the other system."

Edited at 2014-06-25 04:11 pm (UTC)
Jun. 25th, 2014 05:11 pm (UTC)
qkkk------------------------- 0<q This was Mini-Meetme's contribution to the topic. Her very first typed "words"! But I like the way TS4 looks so far, with some things I worry a bit about - the depth of personality, emotions being too gimmicky, and why are teens the same height as adults?! I don't care about cars and pools, but I do wish they'd at least say "there are toddlers" soon, because I'm getting a tiny bit concerned. Also CAT VEST. <3 Edit: Oops - meant for it to be a reply to the main post and not the comment, oh well!

Edited at 2014-06-25 05:12 pm (UTC)
Jun. 25th, 2014 06:52 pm (UTC)
There was no toddler icon in the newer Video discussing genetics. That was pretty disheartening.
Jun. 25th, 2014 06:56 pm (UTC)
That video was also from E3, though, meaning that it was the same alpha CAS we've been seeing all along.
Jun. 25th, 2014 07:13 pm (UTC)
They just announced no toddlers. I am now very sad. :(
Jun. 25th, 2014 07:17 pm (UTC)
Yeah, that is just dumb. People were wanting more life stages and then they go and get rid of one.
Jun. 25th, 2014 07:41 pm (UTC)
Exactly! And it's beyond stupid to include young adults and not toddlers. Do they jump from babies to children, or have we even see babies yet? Maybe there's no babies!
Jun. 25th, 2014 11:35 pm (UTC)
I suspect we'll have either more 'active' babies and it'll jump from Baby to child as we had with TS1. It just... So many conflicting feelings with TS4. I love the CAS, I love the cartoonish styles that everyone seems to hate on and the soft, vibrant world and even the aspiration-trait system appeals to me, but then they toss these backpedals out that just... ugh...

It makes me concerned with what will come in the future. One of the things I am all about with TS2 is the open world feel of just roaming and exploring and my horses. I love my animal babies and the horses was an awesome addition for me. I fear that with all the backpedaling we're seeing, that they'll nix that, too.

I'm just so deeply 'meh' with all this. They give me something I'm excited about then yank two things I LIKED about TS3 away, left and right.
Jun. 25th, 2014 07:24 pm (UTC)
Seriously?! Why on earth would they do that?
Jun. 25th, 2014 09:10 pm (UTC)
I don't get that either. :(
Jun. 26th, 2014 05:50 am (UTC)
This might very well be a dealbreaker for me. Because it also shows that they've probably paid very, very little attention to family interactions in general, breastfeeding and "make face" aside. I was waiting on toddler information to preorder, now it looks like I'll be a dirty pirate instead.
Jun. 27th, 2014 11:17 pm (UTC)
I keep thinking about how little sense it all makes. They've finally added breastfeeding! :D ... but taken away... TODDLERS?! Why care about making one better and more realistic, while removing the other entirely?

I'm trying my best not to take it too personally, but when you're a stay at home parent to a baby and a toddler (and before long, two toddlers), it's hard not to feel a little put off by having your day to day life experience completely left out of a life simulator. It's just a game, I know, but way to make me feel like my story doesn't matter at all, EA!
Jun. 25th, 2014 08:09 pm (UTC)
What??? Are the babies just going to jump to children? Isn't that what happened in the Sims 1?


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